Excerpts of a Timeless Debate...

Following is an interesting exchange of mails I had with a very dear friend of mine, who is so different, and yet so familiar. He’s a very religious person, as opposed to my slightly godless approach towards life. We hardly ever talk about it, except in the earlier stages of our acquaintance when I used to be amazed by his piousness. Neither of us ever forced our individual views on the topic (religion) and neither did we ever argue over it. This conversation cannot be called an argument, merely a discussion of opinions. I was cleaning up my inbox, and I chanced across the last mail regarding this discussion, which had the entire history of mails below it. Decided it was an interesting mix of personal views and posted it…Besides just removing the short text we use for mailing, I’ve also left out the stuff not pertaining to the topic…so things might seem a little out of context in some places..

Aftab (hereafter mentioned as ‘A’):
I know u don’t fancy religion, but I want to tell u something... you have to face up to certain things in life...
You can’t just keep ignoring it just because it seems confusing or whatever at the outset...
I know there are many things to do in this life here on earth...but have u ever pondered, is this the ultimate aim?
Is it just getting that degree, getting a job, enjoying stuff etc.,
Yes, I accept, that all that is needed but that is a part of life, not life in itself...but that’s what most have made it out to be... tell me, look at the world around you, you see all kinds of people, you see rich people, you see poor people, you see disabled people, you see the most beautiful people, you see ugly people...is that just...
what I mean to say is, a disabled guy has to face up to his/her disability all thru their lives & live with it but one who is hale & hearty leads a much more comfortable life...but why? What is it that the disabled guy did to deserve it? He was just born into this world that way...its no fault of his...have you pondered why this is so...
I know u can look away & forget it because it has nothing to do with u...but there are signs in all of this for us, it is upto you to understand it....

I:
Hmmmmm....see that’s your outlook..... you think that one should ponder into the deeper meaning of life and its endless mysteries...But see I don’t think one can ever get the answer to his questions of the Whys, Hows and Whens , when it comes to life....
I feel these are things that are there - maybe not at as meaningless coincidence of events... but something above and beyond us.
I don’t mean the scientific details... the Big Bang and the chemistry of life.... that is something that can be understood after research and all (i.e. it’s more about the WAY it works.. rather than WHY it works..)..
Do you think all the pondering can answer the fundamental question - why were we born..? How did an assorted list of chemicals suddenly decide to merge together and create an entity of its own?
These questions can be taken in a scientific approach as well as a philosophical approach.... via science one can at least find out how... but never why.
But see.... some things are meant to be left untouched... you cant ponder about all these questions and expect an answer.
Religion is a way of giving explanation to these questions - answer all questions with the assumption of a single all powerful entity who created the world and everything within it....
Maybe so, because it is virtually impossible to imagine that the entire universe was an accident of molecules....
Then again...maybe not…
And even if the answer is Yes, I don’t think the Almighty is really looking for someone to find proof of his existence.
He's out there... having created everything, maybe observing the fruits of his effort, but I don’t think I want to ponder about all his mysterious ways while I have the opportunity of living them...anyway nothing is to come from the endless questions. At least not philosophically; scientifically maybe so but then science will never be able to answer the WHY.
And I think maybe the WHY is answerable only after the cause of WHY (life) is over... maybe that’s why there is a concept of heaven...

Anyway maybe I’m talking a little off course from what you were saying…. all I’m saying is...you cant expect everything around you to be explainable.... and no amount of thinking or pondering is ever going to make these things understandable….like what you were saying - why are some people suffering while others aren’t, why some are beautiful and some aren’t....all these questions are entwined into one vast tapestry ....simply meant to be experienced.. not meant to be understood. Maybe because we're too little within that tapestry to be significant enough to have some answers...
Maybe that’s how he made it. Now its a matter of choice, whether one still want s to delve into all the endless questions…. searching... hoping for a satisfactory answer..
Or, taking life as it comes... questioning…but accepting that some things (a lot) are beyond our comprehension...and will always remain so...
If one is lucky, s/he will find their answers in the smaller things of life - be it a flower, a child, the sea, religion, anything at all...
Others...maybe they prefer to close their eyes to the infinity of questions and open themselves to their finite self....
Maybe the journey of life is at the end, the answer to the question of life...

That’s how I feel...so while u tend to question and ponder, I tend to ignore and accept.... that’s why we're different., but that’s also why we understand each other .

A:
I agree with u partly & disagree on certain other things which you’ve written...
I agree with your points where you say science can max answer how & can never answer why. I agree with you where you say certain things are above & beyond us & are better left untouched, we being weak & small when compared to this amazing creation called the universe...
But I disagree with what you consider above & beyond...when u have answers to certain things present , one should not consider that above & beyond. Questions like why is the sky blue, why couldn’t it have been yellow are above & beyond questions but at the same time questions whose answers will serve no purpose..
So, one should question (this is my opinion), things which serve a purpose in one's life & whose answers help the person to better comprehend the happenings around him - things which give meaning to his life; otherwise, all the events which happen around him are just a series of events...attributed to good luck, bad luck or whatever other superstitious beliefs...

Regarding proof of the existence of an Almighty God, as you’ve said, this universe itself is sufficient proof...according to me, only a fool can consider this universe an accident, an accident of molecules joining together or whatever..
Regarding the outlook to have in life i.e. whether to remain ignorant or ponder, is definitely a matter of choice...no doubt about that...and for either choice made, the person in question is fully responsible... You said, "maybe the journey of life is at the end the answer to the question of life...”, the answer definitely will be got at the end...when we leave this world. The thing is, the answer shouldn’t be something which comes as a surprise...

So, that’s what I feel...

I:
I guess we'll always disagree in such topics…
See, what makes anyone the judge as to whether answers to questions like 'why is the sky blue and not yellow' will serve no purpose?? And what makes one sure that the answers to other questions will help the person better comprehend the happenings around her/him. As for what you said “the thing is, the answer shouldn’t be something which comes as a surprise...' --- that is something which nobody can ever find out before it happens.... no matter how many answers you assume to have got... the end is always going to be a surprise....

All the concepts of death, be it reincarnation, Judgement Day, Moksha, are all ideas, concepts, beliefs that everyone wants to believe. Yet nobody can ever be sure what happens and guess that’s the way it should be. After all, if all one's life one ponders about what will happen Afterwards, s/he's never going to experience the full potential of life because, all the time, the questions will be hovering....
As for thinking that 'only a fool can consider this universe an accident'... well that’s your perception... a person believing the contrary could also say the same about people believing in God....
As in..... a scientist might say that the existence of a single Almighty power which is responsible for all creation is scientifically impossible ....he can break down the entire magic of creation into stages, phases, numbers and equations..
Maybe he's wrong, then again…… maybe he's not..
As I said before….one will never know.
And this dissent of views is a universal debate..
Yes ... the percentage of believers is much, much, much more than that of the disbelievers….--
Doesn’t automatically make them the right ones...

Every concept/belief different from the general belief is usually discarded, and then after getting undeniable proofs, the crowd reluctantly accepts it. Then, slowly it becomes the norm..
I don’t think this is ever going to happen in the case of the Hows and Whys of the universe (but one never knows)....so you can't really discard the idea....
For example...one guy in the US thinks that life on earth was brought on by aliens (Eric Von Daniken - Chariots of the Gods)......and he gives consistent proof. By the end of the book, one wonders why the whole world does not know about these ideas....it’s the same thing.... different concept....reaction of unacceptability....
Anyway that was just an example.

A:
Yes, disagreeing is inevitable in such topics... The debate on this topic will go on & on in the world till the end for sure.. Agreed that being a majority doesn’t make the idea they carry right. Yes, nobody can find the answer before it happens i.e. death, it being a surprise or not, is dependent on what you believed would happen & what actually happens then. Regarding the universe, yes, again, the debate between the atheist & a believer will always be there till the end... Regarding, "every concept/belief different from the general belief is usually discarded ....." , this is very true right from the start of this world, where all prophets sent were despised by their own people...calling them mad, sorcerers etc...

Here ended our debate - a rather abrupt end maybe. As expected, nobody’s opinion was changed, which was but an inevitable and foregone conclusion.